DISCUSS (83)

All Non-African People Are Part Neanderthal

Posted by ralph on July 24, 2011

Neanderthal child

Reconstruction of a Neanderthal child.

Interesting article from Alasdair Wilkins on io9.com:

The evidence has been mounting for years that early humans and Neanderthals interbred, but now it’s pretty much a certainty. Part of the X chromosome found in people from outside Africa originally comes from our Neanderthal cousins.

It’s kind of amazing to think that, as recently as just a few years ago, the scientific consensus was that humans and Neanderthals were completely separate species and probably didn’t interbreed. Since then, a ton of new evidence has come to light to change that position, and now new research from Damian Labuda of the University of Montreal more or less completes this big reversal.

Neanderthals, one of the last extant hominid species other than our own, left Africa somewhere between 400,000 and 800,000 years ago and settled mostly in Europe until they went extinct 30,000 years ago. Early modern humans left Africa about 80,000 to 50,000 years ago, meaning they overlapped with Neanderthals in time and place for at least 20,000 years. On an evolutionary time scale, that’s not a ton of time, but could it be enough to leave lasting evidence of human/Neanderthal interbreeding?

Read More from Alasdair Wilkins on io9.com

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  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    Ever hear of the concept of Hybrid Vigour? The offspring of 2 different groups tend to be stronger in various ways over the original parents… so these dirty mongrels could potentially be superior in ways. Not to support white supremacy; just to give them fodder to play with (hey If we got white supremacist talking in real evolutionary terms, that would be a slight step forward… then they might even finally drop their weakening “Purity” desire).

  • Anarchy Wolf

    Finally something to agree on! 

  • Anarchy Wolf

    Uh, IQ and complexity are not necessarily linked, and the rise of civilization and all its useless trappings came about not from great intelligence but from great complexification. And it has been the single greatest mistake that humankind has ever made.

  • Anonymous

    My son’s mother is Kenyan (I’m Dutch) and he is a total trooper. Besides chicken pox and the odd sniffle he’s barely been sick a day since he was a baby.

  • http://hormeticminds.blogspot.com/ Chaorder Gradient

    Hehe yeah that makes sense. Whats funny is hybridization is essentially the “cure” for inbreeding. Purebred dogs commonly have tons of congenital disorders, but interbreed two different purebreeds and you get a mutt that is missing most if not all of those recessive genetic problems.

  • Anonymous

    Definitely tickled my with that fancy that 1… lol! Ohh n i sensed the tick as soon as i read your comment… we’re like dirty neanderthal twins bro!  Siamese man.. siamese!!! Ohh n to your questinon:The most ancient mathematical texts available to man are Plimpton 322…  Which are 4500-year old clay tablets showing multiplication and division problems. The 2nd oldest are the 3600 year old Mesopotamian tablets; which show tables of squares, cubes, reciprocals, and even logarithms. POW POW POW… you can pull up your pants now. Im surprised you didn’t know about Plimpton 322… because you mentioned the Cuneiform script, which came from that same people….

  • Tuna Ghost

    Just to be clear, are you seriously trying to draw a casual connection between race and math skills?  That’s, um, not something I’d advise doing.  

  • JoJoDancer

    I am not arguing that IQ is genetic here, and honestly, I would like to see any well-referenced alternative theories that better explain the statistics.  They are few and far between because those who doubt genetic theories are complascent and rarely put together solid research, which is a shame.

    National statistics are there.  Global statistics are there.  To ignore them or just say “You can’t talk about that, it’s racist” is shamefully lazy.

    Last week our local paper had a front page story whose subtitle read Minorities lag behind in AP studies, then below was a graph which showed blacks and Hispanics far below whites–and all three were far below Asians.  Now think about that as you reread that headline.  Misleading?  Tip-toes getting sore?

    If you have any insights, school me.

  • JoJoDancer

    I am not very good at math.  Therefore my calculations that your use of a brutal sodomy metaphor for providing Googlable facts on ancient math show you to be a closet gay rapist.  But I always neglect to carry the 1, so I may be off by a mark or two.

    So, Plimpton 322 came from Mesopotamia.  I bet the Neanderthals pumped some seed into the Fertile Crescent.  Care to wager?

  • JoJoDancer

    Speaking of Hybrid Vigor, it is interesting that civilization began at the geographic borders between the differentiated races of Europe, Africa, and Asia.  I have often wondered if the novel combinations that must have occured at those meeting places–Ancient Egypt, the Fertile Crescent, the Mediterranean of Ancient Greece–created a surge in human potential.  That is, if genes count for anything in the realm of intelligence.

  • JoJoDancer

    Now I understand why you were so offended.  I get touchy like that when people claim that my own familial line is somehow degenerate–ie. white-bashing “anti-racists.”

    Aggregate statistics do not imply much, if anything, about individuals.  Certain individuals always rocket ahead of the group.  Keep that in mind.

  • Ewop07

    People from African Descent are Human Beings and people  not from African descent are Neanderthals

  • Anonymous

    Keep it classy JoJo. I just fucking hate racist cunts like yourself, there’s not much more to it.

  • Plop

    Economics.

  • Plop

    Civilization  simply “seems” to start in the middle east because that is were European archaeologists (using the bible as a map) looked for it first. What you’re really talking about is the record of material culture. Outside of Egypt, Archaeology in Africa has sorely been neglected. One must also remember that materials must “SURVIVE”. If a culture uses materials that biodegrade, which is more likely not just the further back you go in time, but the further you get from the arid desert, they do not survive. This is part of the reason there is a great gap in European history. They built every damn thing out of wood, until they didn’t, at which point they left us something to dig up.

  • Plop

    Also you must remember that at the end of the last ice age we lost millions of square miles of coastal land. Any coastal culture that may have existed lie buried miles off shore.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    As Plop so eloquently suggests, economics is one reason.  The statistics do seem to suggest something that no one wants to say, something along the lines of “minorities just aren’t as smart as whites”, but that isn’t telling the whole story.  

    Take my hometown of Detroit, for example.  It is predominantly black, and the test scores there are pretty shitty.  Does this mean black people just plain aren’t good at book-larnin’?  Not at all.  Back in the 60’s, there were terrible riots stemming from a mostly white police force overseeing mostly black neighborhoods, and the resulting the race riots were so bad the national guard was called in.  This lead to what folks call “white flight”–all the white folks moved out to the suburbs and took their money with them.  Ever since that time, poverty in Detroit grew and grew until it reached the present state where a full third of the population is below the poverty line and in a poll five years ago, almost half the residents said they would move out of Detroit if they could afford it.  Unemployment in Detroit (Michigan in general, but Detroit skewed the statistics pretty heavily) was a huge problem before the economy went down the toilet, and now its even worse.  The city is bankrupt and the last mayor, a thug named Kwame Kilpatrick, didn’t help anything with his embezzlement.

    What does this have to do with test scores?  Well the school system in Detroit is just plain broken.  The city has no money to pay teachers a decent wage, and it seems every few years they go on strike because they’re being paid shit to teach some of the hardest kids in the country.  The schools can’t pay them more because they just don’t have the money, which means the schools don’t have the proper materials and more and more schools close every year.  This leads to over-crowding in the classrooms, which has a direct effect on the quality of education per child.  Combine this with the arrest record of the average black male in Detroit, the broken families that result from this, and you have a recipe for students that see no reason to stay in school and a school system that can’t give them any.  No materials, fewer and fewer teachers each year, bigger and bigger class size, and you have test scores and general education levels dropping like a goddam stone.  

    This problem is not unique to Detroit–it happens in predominantly minority communities all over the country.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    P.S.  You mentioned asian students out-performing blacks and hispanics.  Take a look at the average income for Asian families, how many of these families have a two-parent home, and what neighborhoods these families are from and you’ll notice a pretty distinct pattern.

  • Tuna Ghost

    This may be me looking to hard, but it seems like you’re pretty set on taking the accomplishments of colored folks and placing them on the shoulders of the white folks.  That’s not cool, buddy.

  • Tuna Ghost

    This may be me looking to hard, but it seems like you’re pretty set on taking the accomplishments of colored folks and placing them on the shoulders of the white folks.  That’s not cool, buddy.

  • JoJoDancer

    Your insight from a place where “minority” is rendered meaningless by regional demographics is quite interesting.  I can only imagine the subtle details you have picked up over the years.  I have always held the opinion is worth a thousand global studies.

    It is late in the night and late in the thread, but rest assured that your response is food for thought.

  • JoJoDancer

    I suppose we could dig to the center of the Earth and never find a trace of the beginning.  History is a reconstruction, that is certain.  We only have faded snapshots to work with.

  • JoJoDancer

    Many “colord folks’” accomplishments do rest upon the shoulders of white folks.  You and I both know that.

    Look at it this way:  Rock n’ roll was utterly dependent upon black rhythms, black sorrows, black lyrics, and black wildness.  Without blacks, rock n’ roll would sound like an Irish cracker slapping old potatos against a whiskey bottle and grumbling about shitty England.  We can all agree that black soul was necessary for rock n’ roll, right?

    So why would we have a hard time agreeing that the advancement of mathematics disproportionately rests on the shoulders of Asians and Jews?

    Again, I am open to alternative ideas, but it sure seems like the Asians and Jews have a knack for numbers and literary endeavors.  Whether math and science are superior endeavors is in the eye of the beholder.  Who excels at such skills is in the eye of the graph.

  • Anonymous

    I wouldn’t be surprised if one day there was discovered conclusive proof that our species came from different ape species and cross-screwed itself to form one wanker species that now dominates the globe.

    Black people largely from another ape species. I mean, just look at them. They’re superior.

  • Stevebeer60

    Wow. And to think that we consider the people of Africa to be the lesser humans.

  • Tuna Ghost

    So why would we have a hard time agreeing that the advancement of mathematics disproportionately rests on the shoulders of Asians and Jews?
    Because as history shows us, Algebra and a lot of Geometry came from the middle east, calculus from europe, and the Greeks helped quite a bit in the Geometry section.  Where are you getting this “Jews and Asians” bit from?  It sounds like bald stereotyping with nothing to back it up.  I explained earlier that if you take a look Asian families in america, their economic situation and the sort of communities they live in, and the stats will make sense.  On the other side of the world, if you look at the scholastic culture of Asian countries and the results also become clear.  

  • Tuna Ghost

    Every time humanity gets itself into trouble, I gotta fuck our way out of it.  Figures

  • Anonymous

    What of the great Han people rising in the East as we speak? What is their claim to fame? Neanderthals too? Or not? 

  • Anonymous

    What of the great Han people rising in the East as we speak? What is their claim to fame? Neanderthals too? Or not? 

  • Rwestbrook

    science is a stuipd religon. They have no proof of anything they say about eveloution so they are constantly making up trash. Give it a rest!

  • Wanooski

    Yeah no proof, except for all modern genetic science, and the fossil record. Your religion is fake, it has a clear cultural origin and definable cultural evolution, it therefore cannot be an eternal truth. It exists only to justify patriarchal dominator hierarchies, that destroy indigenous peoples and colonize the land. Grow up. 

  • Pagan Harlow

    Why can’t we all just admit that race does not matter? Yes, we have all the genetics of our ancestors and guess what? We’re not them. All that dna moving up generation by generation until there’s *Poof!* us. The first generations that can look back at it all and see it for what it is. A huge family feud. Hatfieds and McCoys. There’s been awesome people who changed the world, evil people as well. Of every race, every religion. We can’t keep acting like dicks to each other because our daddies did bad things to your daddies and vise versa. Do you not the irony? Fighting about dumb shit is what does us in! I don’t want a new world order, I want a sane world order. You can’t integrate people by force, play them against each other and make it work. It’s insanity. And we keep doing it. Why? We don’t look back in time and be honest about what’s going on. We’re not objective. We’re too attached to it. Because someone told you that you should give a shit. That it wasn’t specific people of every race, every religion that got us here. And we all did it to each other. It sucks. We’ve been fighting too long to see who really was Daddy’s favorite, who was right… but we forgot how we were hurting Mom.

  • Pagan Harlow

    Why can’t we all just admit that race does not matter? Yes, we have all the genetics of our ancestors and guess what? We’re not them. All that dna moving up generation by generation until there’s *Poof!* us. The first generations that can look back at it all and see it for what it is. A huge family feud. Hatfieds and McCoys. There’s been awesome people who changed the world, evil people as well. Of every race, every religion. We can’t keep acting like dicks to each other because our daddies did bad things to your daddies and vise versa. Do you not the irony? Fighting about dumb shit is what does us in! I don’t want a new world order, I want a sane world order. You can’t integrate people by force, play them against each other and make it work. It’s insanity. And we keep doing it. Why? We don’t look back in time and be honest about what’s going on. We’re not objective. We’re too attached to it. Because someone told you that you should give a shit. That it wasn’t specific people of every race, every religion that got us here. And we all did it to each other. It sucks. We’ve been fighting too long to see who really was Daddy’s favorite, who was right… but we forgot how we were hurting Mom.