Abolish Student Loan Debt?

Also known as “Fascism Inc.EDU”

Oops, you beat me to it. I just got so excited, I stopped reading too early.

I think student loans should be capped at 7-10 years to pay back…and the maximum tuition a school should be able to charge should be based on the median salary of its graduating classes, based on a set, sustainable percentage of monthly income being allotted to student loan payments and assuming 100% funding through student loans.

I think both the student loan industry and colleges are out of control.  Administrators outnumber professors at some institution, drawing much higher salaries under the argument that they need to compete with the private sector for “talent.”  Of course the student loan industry is full of abuses too, subsidized and protected by the government.  And the two play on each other – swelling administrations are funded by swelling student loans…

I also think capping things would push many current programs that would be better handled as 2-year degrees, on the job training, or apprenticeships back where they belong.  There is no reason you should need a college degree to be a manager at Target, for example.

I think student loans should be capped at 7-10 years to pay back…and the maximum tuition a school should be able to charge should be based on the median salary of its graduating classes, based on a set, sustainable percentage of monthly income being allotted to student loan payments and assuming 100% funding through student loans.

I think both the student loan industry and colleges are out of control.  Administrators outnumber professors at some institutions, drawing much higher salaries under the argument that they need to compete with the private sector for “talent.”  Of course the student loan industry is full of abuses too, subsidized and protected by the government.  And the two play on each other – swelling administrations are funded by swelling student loans…

I also think capping things would push many current programs that would be better handled as 2-year degrees, on the job training, or apprenticeships back where they belong.  There is no reason you should need a college degree to be a manager at Target, for example.

Although i disagree with your premise, “the right to assume debt should exist…” I DO agree with you on your other points.(i.e. financial services out of control, banksters in power, attempt to negotiate…)

I think i can sway you with a more factually inclined arguement on the complete abolition of student debt  in particular.

-Student debt is a basically a requirement of higher education in the US/Canada if you do not have
wealthy parents.  Contradictory to the aims of contemporary pedagogy and arguably democracy which
require egalitarian democratic educational institutions, and informed citizen public.
Without going into a deep class analysis this would infer that inequality is institutionalised at the teritiary level (whether public or private and thus running against at least the aims of ‘public education’)

-Student Debt is psychologically crippling (well all debt can be crippling) but student debt which CANNOT be discharged through bankruptcy (both here and in the US)- and charges interest rates that in other financial services (as you stated above) would be considered usurious (28%+) is considered to be particularly debilitating by psychologists and educators.

-The most generous models of ‘capitalism” i.e. The Scandinavian Models have entirely done away with  teritiary fees (finland, sweden and norway  and i BELIEVE/but don’t quote me denmark). finland in particular used a loan -model not dissimiliar to the US/canada but found it inherently divisive.

-Australia had no teritiary fees until 1988- and now has a huge avg student burden.

-Many  Boomers and Gen X’ers paid nearly 90% less for their tuition than students do currently (using  cdn numbers i have read somewhere the US number is cloaser to 70% less, and the UK 95%), yet they are ones pushing for higher fees….?

-Fees/Debt has pushed students out of Arts/Humanities AND skilled trades and into technocratic occupations like engineering and hard sciences. Lack of social science, arts, literature, language, religion (comparitive or specific studies like divinity or buddhist), media arts, promotes the very post modern trend of pop culture over cultural knowledge. Pop’ns inclined toward hard sciences/commerce (like Singapore or China) demonstrate willingness to live under oppressive regimes and have higher suicide rates.

I guess my point is- that IF capitalism is a given, it IS still possible to have democratic egalitarian educational institutions within that model. I think if this our reality, there will still be dozens of places to make “profit” whether in financial services or loans of other sorts.

I should probably have expanded further…for the most part…I speak of the concept of debt as a whole…not merely with regard to education. The concept of ‘credit’…the ability to entrust a service or investment to another with the expectation of repayment…is central to both ancient and modern economics…so it would be unrealistic to abandon the concept. It would be realistic to rebuild strict controls that prevent debt slavery and gross abuse of interest…so we agree…

…for student debt and colleges…the ideal situation is one where A) a portion of the cost is guaranteed by the state for any who meet the entry qualifications, B) grants for performance cover further costs for high achieving students, C) debt terms for remaining costs are forced to reasonable rates for repayment so that they don’t cripple the consumer power of the newly graduated and D) the costs of an education as a whole are held to a level equal to their value…unlike the present, where a person can be indebted for half a lifetime to pay for a degree with comparatively little value in real time wages. This would be a more egalitarian setup…leaving room for lenders and the expectation of repayment…but not in such a predatory sense.

When I speak of debts not being erased…I mean in the current paradigm that existing debts should not be wholly forgiven (since they were entered into willingly enough albeit under pressure)…but rather partly forgiven…perhaps slashed back to the original amount sans interest, but not purged completely. I went through a bankruptcy some ten years ago…and in my defense…everyone who worked with me regarding repayment for excess debts was excluded from the bankruptcy filing and repaid in full. The companies who refused smaller payments or terms other than instant gratification…took the hit in court and received nothing. It particularly helped that I’d tendered offers for slower repayment…and was rebuffed. I respect the concept of owing what you borrowed…but it has to be balanced against fair and unwavering terms from the lender…not rapidly shifting and unreasonable demands. 

first of all “I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and sh!t out a better arguement.”

You make no sense and of course everyone is freaken different its obvious “Mr. good at life with a smart wife”.The problem is most institutions like colleges do not encourage or allow unique self expression and want to make you even more automatic and machine like (for a price$$$$$). Of course college is an opportuinity but  if you ask the fish in the pond, sometimes that tasty morscle floating in the water has a hook in it. And  guy you picked the wrong article to come and try to defend college as a valid opportunity because if you drop your white picket fence mind set you can see that the people you are saying are all different are having the same problem getting a return on the investments they made toward their education. Its a college casino and the house always wins. You are right college is an opportunity an opportunity for them to make money on top of you. But in your defense almost every industry has this problem of narrow mindness and greed these days. Now you talk about my mothers window again and ill make it my business to troll every comment you make under nuggett. thanks for reading you can go browse something else on your ipad 2 that you were able to aquire due to all your academy and financial success.  

No my argument is that the top of the class is usually super nerdy to the point of extreme introversion. There is more to life then financial success buddy and being an intellectual does not guarantee financial success and each class is different then the other. For all i know she was trying to be a giant in a land of midgets which is easy. And financial success if having millions to billions the middle class can not afford to have such shallow status competitions.  

I want to have better understanding and experiences with your wife. Can she cook? And is she free on tuesday nights? I think I need to be on top of her class.

its funny who you are saying you got a nice loan when everyone posting is complaining about their horrors of their unrealistic financial obligations, you got no sympathy and are trying to create comfusion and irronicly true disinformation ( I love a good word battle in the morning). And you talk about the real world. Trust me buddy the fall from that pedestal is very very hard. And you should make a fund for unexpected disaster, which is what get most high horse people like yourself by surprice. For some reason the tarot card called the The Tower comes to mind when focusing on you…. 

Thanks vox! another well-reasoned response! you’re quite the blog-poet lately;)

Your personal experience does make a lot of sense regarding debt repayment. I don’t disagree at all with the concept of credit or repayment of pre-existing debts, but i do have an issue with student loans- and maintain that tuition should be wholly subsidised or at the very least dramatically reduced, and those students with current loan balances (public or prvt) should have that balance forgiven. I understand it’s a radical proposition, but given that tuition for some of our contemporary greatest thinkers was a mere 50$ for class fees (disregarding inflation of course) and many of our current technocrats (looking at you Dave Cameron), paid next to nothing, i have a real issue, with the expansion of fees and continued burden of this specific debt.

there is whole generation of you saps who think any debt you incurred should be forgiven.  did someone hold a gun to your head when you took the money.   what about the people who lent you the $$$.   you knew the terms and when you have not paid a collector should be up your ass.  great lesson for your kids….take the money and then come up with some lame excuse “the man fucked me” for a reason to not meet your obligations.  you are the  problem…..not “the man”.

Wahhh…if you don’t like student debt, do what I did and work at the same time as going to school.  When did kids become such massive wusses with a ridiculous sense of entitlement?  

What is the easiest ways to Abolish the student Loan Debt?
 http://www.bastawisy.com/vb/member.php?14451-Dakeviny

I agree with most of what you say. Clearly it is an institutionalized scam. However, the answer is not to publicly fund college/university education. For one thing, the logic is inconsistent: It’s unacceptable for students to have to pay back debt, but it’s perfectly acceptable to force others to fund your education through taxation?

The best option is to repeal the regulations preventing employment in a certain field without a diploma/degree. Allow people the choice of going to school, or self-educating, or educating in an entirely different fashion, and if they can prove they have the skills, allow them to enter their chosen field. This seems to make sense anyway, since if you do a poor job, you’ll be fired (or lose business, if you’re self-employed — same difference) regardless of your level of education. The regulations are what are REALLY preventing skilled people who lack funds from advancing. The fact that college/university can be cost-prohibitive for certain people is just a symptom of the problem.

This whole idea that everyone is entitled to higher education (or education period) seems to stem from the fact that people have been so neutered by the government that they can’t imagine that they can be educated without specifically going to a school. Nobody believes in themselves anymore, or in the power of accomplishing something together. If the government doesn’t provide it, all is lost.

Have you seen what’s been happening in Chile lately?

NO NO NO If you borrow money you should pay it back! No one forced you to take that loan.

But How to Possible to Complete a school Loan Debt?
 http://www.scanwestauto.com/forums/member.php?33926-Alaqua

Not abolish it. But the price of education should be coming down, not going up. I mean really, with the technology we have, And the supposed free market, shouldn’t school be cheaper?
And the student loans should not be a Government monopoly. That’s the next bubble waiting to happen. That’s the real scary part. We are not giving loans out too easily. We haven’t learned a thing from the housing bubble.

Yeah. That’s exactly how it works. 

And people who work hard at “practical” things all get rewarded and “entitled” “impractical” people who want to do something crazy like raise the standard and level of discussion and thought in this country should be tossed on the street? 

That’s the kind of nonsense my grandfather used to say. There’s little in this world that I hate more. Well. Get in line. It’s a long fucking line. 

When I was in college, I was the editor of a small magazine making $23 an hour. I also did freelance editing work making $20 per hour. I took out student loans because my money from work was going to support my mom who had to go on disability from work. I didn’t worry about it because I had good jobs in publishing that I figured would be there for me when I graduated. I did, and I got a job editing for Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. This was in 09 after the crash, and they were only paying $18, but we were assured of raises soon. A year and a half later, not only did we never have a raise, but they laid off our entire team because they decided editing wasn’t important enough. I couldn’t qualify for unemployment because we were contract workers and the company didn’t pay into unemployment insurance for us. So now I have debt, a family that can’t help, and work two minimum wage jobs and am unable to find anything in publishing because it isn’t doing too well. Not very many of us saw this coming. I didn’t spend 10 years interning and working in a field since I was 16 years old so that I could be 26 and working at a farmer’s market. I did everything I was “supposed” to and had no idea what I was getting myself into.

Whether you go to school or not it is best to check all of your options.  That said, the banking system needs to change to be more fair to the consumer. 

But also a public institution, much as education SHOULD be.

i can appreciate an entreprenurial spirit, but you entirely missed the point- which may infer your own education was less than viable.

start planning those student loan forgiveness celebrations early my fellow debtors. invite uncle sam and the university student services staff and work study kids so instrumental in the process- providing personal and personable service until every single detail -written by redundant multitudes of low-paid hard working govt lawyers bankers and accountants- unified to ensure a couple little easily understood and fully comprehended laws codes provisions and govt state and local loan application dispersement repayment dispute process hardship provision and default penalty and third-party reporting agency details an average 12th grade educated borrower from anywhere usa had pushed and pimped through incessant trade school trucking refrigeration veterinary dental assistant phlebotomy and toenail clipping engineer training facility during the mid day and midnight commercial explosion in every market in the content americas puerto rico and guam -also available in SPANISH where available- like gum and candy sex and moronic mid-life crises dumb-ass looking accident lawyer and his friend the other lawyer thats dancing a jig on every rent-a-center flat screen hdtv in the hood. dj debt-free is in the hooowwwse tonight- everything we owe to the federal ho ho ho has to go go go – let me see your shiny new credit score reports in the air