Robert Stinnett: Well, they were just cut off . . . They were not told that the spy was there, and they were not given these crucial documents, the radio direction finder information. All this information was going to everybody but Kimmel and Short. That's very clear . . . At one point Kimmel specifically requested that Washington let him know immediately about any important developments, but they did not do that.

Disinformation: Kimmel was given some information, because two weeks before the attack he sent the Pacific fleet north of Hawaii on a reconnaissance exercise to look for Japanese carriers. When White House military officials learned of this what was their reaction?

Robert Stinnett: Admiral Kimmel tried a number of occasions to do something to defend Pearl Harbor. And, right, two weeks before the attack, on November 23, Kimmel sent nearly one hundred warships of the Pacific fleet to the exact site where Japan planned to launch the attack. Kimmel meant business. He was looking for the Japanese. His actions indicated that he wanted to be thoroughly prepared for action if he encountered a Japanese carrier force. When White House officials learned this, they directed to Kimmel that he was "complicating the situation" . . . You see, the White House wanted a clean cut overt act of war by Japan. Isolationists would have charged FDR was precipitating Japanese action by allowing the Pacific fleet in the North Pacific . . . So, minutes after Kimmel got the White House directive he canceled the exercise and returned the fleet to its anchorage in Pearl Harbor . . . That's where the Japanese found it on December 7, 1941.

Disinformation: The White House was handcuffing Kimmel? They wanted him to be completely passive?

Robert Stinnett: That is right.

Disinformation: FDR did send a war warning to Kimmel on November 28. Was that enough of a warning?

Robert Stinnett: Well, that was a warning, but also in there they directed Admiral Kimmel and all the Pacific commanders to stand aside, don't go on the offensive, and remain in a defensive position, and let Japan commit the first overt act. That's right in the message, and it's in my book. And Admiral Kimmel, the message he received, it was repeated twice . . . Stand aside and let Japan commit the first overt act, the exact wording is in my book.

Disinformation: Your book makes it abundantly clear that FDR and his advisors knew Japan was preparing for war, and knew that Japan was eventually going to attack. But can it be said that FDR knew that the attack was going to take place specifically on the morning of December 7 at Pearl Harbor?

Robert Stinnett: Yes . . . Absolutely.

Disinformation: Through the radio intercepts.

Robert Stinnett: Through the radio intercepts. Right. Both military and diplomatic.

Disinformation: Did America's ambassador in Japan, Ambassador Joseph Grew, have any indications that Japan was planning a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor?

Robert Stinnett: The information is that he did. I do quote him in the book, and he warned Washington to be on the alert because he couldn't give them the last minute information.

Disinformation: Well, according to your book Ambassador Grew had a reliable source in the Japanese embassy tell him that Japan was planning the attack, and then Grew sent dire warnings to the White House that an attack on Hawaii was a very real possibility.

Robert Stinnett: Yes, well, he was the first one to--after President Roosevelt adopted this eight action memo--Ambassador Grew learned about the Pearl Harbor attack in January 1941. And then Commander McCollum was asked to evaluate this, and he said, "Oh, there's nothing to it."--even though it was his plan!

Disinformation: He was being disingenuous, McCollum.

Robert Stinnett: Yeah. Exactly.

Disinformation: On December 5 the Navy intercepted a message telling Japanese embassies around the world to burn their code books. What does it mean when a government is telling its embassies to burn their code books?

Robert Stinnett: That means war is coming within a day or two.

Disinformation: That's common knowledge in the military. And the military officials in Washington saw this intercept and the meaning of it wasn't lost on them.

Robert Stinnett: Yes. That's right.

Disinformation: FDR and Washington also knew that Japan had recalled from sea all its merchant ships. What does that mean?

Robert Stinnett: It's known in government and the military that if a nation recalls its merchant ships then those ships are needed to transport soldiers and supplies for war.

Disinformation: So, in your opinion, if there had been no Pearl Harbor, then would America ever have ended up dropping nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Robert Stinnett: Well, that's what the survivors, the families of those who were killed at Pearl, and other people say. They claim that if there hadn't been Pearl Harbor there would have been no Hiroshima. But, of course, that's a "what if" question. And I don't know how to answer it.

Disinformation: One could only speculate on that. But it seems in a way Hiroshima and Nagasaki were maybe retribution for Pearl Harbor.

Robert Stinnett: I think it was more really to bring a close to the war. You know, I was out there at the time, and, frankly, I . . . we were subject to kamikaze attacks, they were attacking our carriers, and about half of our carriers were knocked out as of July 1945, so, personally, I was very pleased with the atom bombing because that ended the war. It probably saved my life.

Disinformation: If what you're saying is true, then Pearl Harbor is a prime example of government treating human beings like guinea pigs. Yet, you, yourself, don't disparage and don't have a negative view of FDR.

Robert Stinnett: No, I don't have a negative view. I think it was his only option to do this. And I quote the chief cryptographer for the Pacific fleet, who said, "It was a pretty cheap price to pay for unifying the country."

Disinformation: That cryptographer, Commander Joseph Rochefort, was a confidant of McCollum's. He worked closely with Kimmel in Pearl Harbor. It could be argued that Rochefort was the closest one to Kimmel who was most responsible for denying Kimmel of the vital intelligence. And he did make that statement. But do you agree with that? A lot of people would be offended and angered by that statement. A lot of people wouldn't agree with it.